19 Class THU OCT 04

19 Class THU OCT 04

Riddle

Riddle of Two Graves

Wake Up: How to Fix a Slogan

NTSA

The National Science Teachers Association

“Working to Help Improve
Science Teaching Efforts since 2008”

  1. We want to improve teaching, not effort.
  2. We want to do the improving, not help.
  3. We want to show results, not work at it.

The National Science Teachers Association

“Better Science Teaching since 2008”

Even that doesn’t brag about the ultimate result, which would be more science LEARNING, wouldn’t it? No matter how well the Association improves teaching, if students don’t learn more science, it fails.

The National Science Teachers Association

“Our Students Learn More, and We Can Prove it.”

or

The National Science Teachers Association

“Demonstrably Better Learning since 2008”


Writing Skills

Looking Ahead:

Rhetoric—
Reading for TUE NOV 09

  • Rhetoric Workshop
    • Includes In-Class Rhetoric Exercise
    • Located in Lectures/Revision/Revision—Rhetoric
    • Due in class today

Sources—
Reading for TUE NOV 09
The Sources Unit

  • Sources Workshop Number 2
    • Responsive to Student X’s trouble finding academic sources
    • Located in Course Documents/Research Tips/Sources Workshop

23 Responses to 19 Class THU OCT 04

  1. levixvice says:

    Slogans are similar to thesis statements, but with improvements to convey the message to the readers. The goal is to compel and persuade those in the middle to continue reading, not to compel or persuade those who have already agreed or who are overly opinionated. To entice more people to join their cause, the NSTA should use the word “learning.” Get rid of the unnecessary sentences that you can make them blunt and robust sentences for people to be persuaded and understand the subject topic. Wealthy people with great social skills will get better treatment from doctors. The thesis must be on topic with the author’s attitude rather than being wishy washy and needs to be shortened to eliminate the other possibilities with only one in use. Never use There is, there are, or it is and “fact that” sentences being weak verb starters in a sentence and would be better to tell the reader of the existence of something. Using by-verbing sentences must be fixed as well as “types of, kinds of, and sort of” sentences.

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  2. gingerbreadman27 says:

    To start class off we discussed the Nation Science Teachers Association slogan and how to better develop it. When developing a thesis you need to focus on the people that can be persuadable and stay away from the people that you have no hope in persuading. Next we discussed revising paragraphs to remove all the junk and ambiguity from them to better state your point of view.

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  3. littlecow24 says:

    -Slogans are like a thesis statement
    -“Working to Help Improve Science Teaching Efforts since 2008” ; doesn’t prove anything. It only shows that they are trying to help improve efforts
    -Something like “Demonstrably Better Learning since 2008” is a much better slogan, showing that since 2008 there has been proven better learning in the NSTA
    -There are going to be people who already agree, people who are too opinionated and the people who are persuadable. You should write for the ones who you can persuade to agree with your thesis statement

    -Make sure everyone knows what you need; get rid of unnecessary words
    -”Even the most well-meaning parents kill their children with too much freedom… or too little” ; this offers 4 different possibilities to start to talk about and peaks interest
    -The use of strong verbs and clauses in your essay, especially your opening paragraph, will pull the reader in and show them that your essay will be meaningful and interesting to read.
    -Using “there is” “it is” and the word “is” in general are going to come in front of weak subject points and your essay will become a mess and hard to understand fully
    -The subject of your idea should be the subject of your sentence
    -Don’t use “By verbing….” ; it shows that you don’t really know where you’re going with the sentence

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  4. friendoftacos says:

    If your first paragraph, make a bold categorical claim you have a better chance of persuading your audience to your argument. A portion of your audience already agree with your argument wants your evidence to help support the argument that they already agree with. Your persuadable readers are your audience, and you want to use your argument to persuade them. In writing you are not writing for everyone. You are writing for a small slice of the potential reading population that is the persuadable readers. “There is” or “there are” or “it is” are all components to a weak sentence.

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  5. kingofcamp says:

    English Comp II Lecture Notes (11.4.21)

    Beginning
    – Warmup: Two Graves
    – Wake Up: How to Fix a Slogan
    o slogans are like thesis statements
     “working to help improve science teaching efforts since 2008”
    • not a confident slogan
    o “we are trying” NOT DOING
     needs reconstruction
     “better science teaching since 2008”
    • doesn’t brag about the ultimate result
    • get rid of the pointless wording
     “our students learn more and we can prove it”
    • better—getting there
    • compel those people in the middle who might want to read (very important)
    • Different groups: already agree, persuadable, and too opinionated
    o the persuadable are very important, they are your audience
     want your evidence
    – “we are not writing for everyone”
    Writing Skills
    – How do we do so?
     “getting rid of the bullshit”
     doing so with subjects and verbs
     be bold and be brave
    • example (class blog)
     no way to build ambiguity but you can give choices
    – “It is,” “There is,” and “There are” are much too weak! These three examples are much too ambiguous—find better verbs (more descriptive)
    – DO NOT “BY VERB”
    o What is “by?”
    o not good enough

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  6. minutemen14 says:

    Graves Riddle
    -two graves divided by a wall, but linked at the top by two hands joined together.
    -this was a catholic woman and a protestant man who were not able to be buried in the same cemetery

    National Science Teacher’s Association
    -slogan that every step of the way shows failure or lack of previous success
    -You cannot persuade everyone
    -We’re not writing for everyone, there is a very small percentage of people that we can get our point across to
    -We can’t persuade those who are completely against us and we already have the support of those who already agree.
    -We need to write for the persuadable.

    There are parents whose behavior has an unfortunate impact on their children. (Parents kill their kids). While you may lose readers due to how blunt the statement is, but you will keep those who are interested or persuadable.

    Robust Verbs
    -Do not use weak verbs to address claims
    -Do not use such wordy sentences to get your point across
    leave out the “By asking” or “these types of problems”
    -These only confuse your reader or drag on your paper.

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  7. Lunaduna says:

    Warm-up:
    – Two graves riddle
    A catholic woman and her husband were not allowed to be buried in the same lot, so they connected the graves by holding hands

    How to fix a slogan:
    “Working to help improve science teaching efforts since 2008.” – There have not been positive results. (A terrible thesis statement)
    “Better science teaching since 2008” – It is an improvement but, it still does not mention how the students learn, and if they are understanding the concept.
    “Our students learn more and we can prove it” – It is not the best slogan, but it is a good thesis statement. (Not in that exact language.)

    The fraction of the audience, people that already agree, the persuadable, and too opinionated.
    The persuadable are the people you want to have as your audience.

    We are not writing for everyone. (There is a small percentage of the potential reading population that we can persuade.)

    Today’s lesson
    – Getting rid of the nonsense to only include the important parts in writing.

    Strong Subjects, Robust Verbs
    – Too many sentences begin with “there are,” “there is,” and “it is.”
    – Just “get to the point” in your writing

    There is no way to build ambiguity in your writing, but you can create choices

    Don’t start a sentence with “by verbing.”

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  8. zzbrd2822 says:

    In class today, we first discussed the story behind the monument of the two graves. A Protestant man and a Catholic woman were not allowed to be buried in the same plot, so they turned their graves into a monument that holds hands over the wall that divides the two plots. We then analyzed the slogan of the National Science Teachers Association and discussed ways in which we can better the claim they are making regarding better science teaching. You should make sure your opening paragraph delivers the clear categorical claim it should in order to persuade your intended audience and compel them to read your essay. Your essay should target those who are persuadable, not those who are too opinionated or those who already agree. Next, we reviewed robust subjects and verbs in your claim that eliminate any unnecessary information and clearly communicate your statement. We then analyzed two paragraphs, one of which was revised for vitality and clarity. We ended class by revising a paragraph on our own.

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  9. nugget114 says:

    Today in class we started off by analyzing a picture from the 19th century in Holland where a Protestant man and a Catholic woman were not allowed to be buried in the same lot so their graves were turned into a monument that holds hands over the wall that divides them.

    We then discussed the worst slogan for a national association which is The National Science Teachers Association’s slogan of “Working to Help Improve Science Teaching Efforts since 2008”. This is the worst claim ever because it essentially proves you’ve done nothing. You worked to help someone else improve science teaching efforts. A much better approach would be “Better Science Teaching since 2008”.

    Out of 100 readers, 5% are reading, about 50% are way too opinionated, and about 45% don’t need to be persuaded because they already agree with you. The 45% group will just need you to provide thorough evidence.

    “There are parents whose behaviors have a negative impact on their children” this sentence is full of extra words and if you instead made it “bad parents kill their kids”, it might be blunt and scare some readers away, but it will keep the attention of the readers who are interested in this specific topic. Although it is a very narrow claim, it can still have the same impact even though we admit that it’s not all parents and not all kids. You could broaden the claim by saying “Even the most well-meaning parents kill their kids with too much freedom…or too little.” Now, you’re including good or bad parents, too strict or too laid back parents, single or divorced parents, etc. all while keeping it clear and categorical.

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  10. strawberryfields4 says:

    Fixing Slogans
    -Must make a strong claim, like a thesis
    -Claim your accomplishments
    -Make a confident and categorical claim as clear as possible
    -The overall goal is to seduce the reader into making small acceptance points
    -Making such a bold and upfront categorical claim poses the risk for alienating the reader
    -You will not be reaching 100% of all people
    -Some readers will already agree with you and some will be way too opinionated (no chance of persuading them)
    -However, a small percentage will be susceptible to your persuasion
    -Be as straightforward as you possibly can be
    -You can modify your incredibly bold claim after you have peaked your reader’s interest
    -Get your reader through your first paragraph!
    -Sentences that depend on weak antecedents create weak and vague claims
    -The sooner you make it clear that you are talking about something serious, the sooner your target audience will be reached

    Robust Sentences
    -You do not have to start by naming all of the possibilities your claim could refer to
    -You have to guide the reader to these possibilities throughout your paper
    -Draw distinctions and identify differences
    -Ambiguity can be categorized and become a clear distinction
    -Make the subject of your idea, the subject of your sentence
    -“There is,” “There are,” and “It is” are all bases for WEAK CLAIMS! Just get to the point!
    -Know where your sentence is going before starting it
    -Carefully craft your subject
    -Do not deprive your writing of clarity and power
    -The word “this” is always an unclear antecedent when used alone

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  11. imaspookyghost says:

    showing why the NSTA claim is weak.
    how to fix it
    be as categorial as you can as early as you can then explain if you have too.
    45% of your readers already agree with you
    50% are to opinionated to change there minds
    5% you may sway
    you can provide the 45% of the people evidence
    you may as well be blunt with the 50% that don’t agree
    Robust Sentences

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  12. A slogan is like a thesis statement
    “Working to help improve science teaching efforts since 2008” is not a good slogan because it is a weak claim. Says they have accomplished nothing
    “Better science teaching since 2008” would be a better slogan because at least it shows an accomplishment
    “Our students learn more, and we can prove it” would be the best option because it shows their accomplishment (better teaching) There is also proof of the accomplishment
    You might as well be blunt and straightforward with people who are too opinionated in order to reach them.
    Provide evidence for those that already agree with you
    Sentences that start with “there are” or “it is” are not strong
    “This” is also an unclear word that can confuse the reader. Clarify what you are talking about
    If you begin with “by” make sure the next thing you say clarifies who is doing the action

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    • davidbdale says:

      Nice notes, CN
      These are good:
      You might as well be blunt and straightforward with people who are too opinionated in order to reach them.
      Provide evidence for those that already agree with you
      3/3

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  13. ziggy026 says:

    We want students to learn more, not claim to be the best.
    Not only have we been improving science teaching, but that effort has not been an utter waste of time because we teach better which doesn’t mean that our students gain better knowledge, but if we can prove that our students learn more.
    When you’re that clear about your intentions you lose your audience
    You risk alienating your readers when you take a blunt approach
    Better science teaching means better science learning and more effective education
    Training wheels don’t help a child learn how to ride a bike, but they can claim to
    You will alienate people you don’t care about when you’re blunt
    Some already agree with you, you’re not going to persuade them
    Those who are way too opinionated to ever change their minds are lost
    You might as well be blunt with them upfront to make sure they know where you stand so they can stop reading
    They do not and will not agree with you
    You can provide those who already agree with you evidence

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  14. Lily4Pres says:

    Warm Up:
    Grave riddle: Two tombstones connected by clasped hands with a wall between them. One of the buried people was a protestant while the other was a catholic. They could not be buried in the same lot so they connected themselves in a different way.
    Wake Up:
    A bad slogan is like a bad thesis statement. Be blunt with your thesis, declare what you want to accomplish. “There are parents whose behaviors have a negative impact on their children.” -> “Bad parents kill their kids.” The job of the first paragraph is to get the reader to the second paragraph. It does not have to be dire, but the sooner you make it clear, the higher the stakes are for your readers to accept or not accept.
    Rhetoric:
    When writing, try to cut ambiguity and rather dictate your audience’s thoughts or at least take them down the highway of your argument. Do this as concise as possible by eliminating repetitions and junk language. This junk language refers to phrases like “there is,” “it is,” “types of,” etc. Use the examples given to see how to revise a paragraph or to see how to properly write an argument within a paragraph. Make every sentence an argument, use robust subjects and verbs.
    Start to take these lessons and translate them into some revisions on your own work.

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  15. neferpitou626 says:

    We went over analyzing paragraphs and revising paragraphs “by verbing” the sentences. We also went over the revisal steps one by one and proceeded to use examples to visually see how the steps are used

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  16. sunshinegirl457 says:

    To start off the class we saw an image of two graves connected by holding hands over a wall. It turns out the two knew each other but were of different religions and were not allowed to be buried in the same lot. They improvised and had the statues hold hands, resulting in a cool and thought-provoking sight. The National Science teachers Association’s slogan is a great example of why you need a strong claim. The slogan is an argument, but it beats around the bush a lot and doesn’t actually show what they have accomplished.
    It’s always better to be clear, but it’s important to keep in mind that some readers might be turned away if you are too blunt. One would never ask their dad for a car up front without first making it seem like a great idea and easing into it. This makes me think of my definition argument where I said “this is undeniable evidence that…(my thesis)” and I’m starting to think I need to change this when I do my rewrite so it’s not like I’m forcing my hypothesis onto the audience so much.
    The verb to be (is/are) is very weak because whatever claim comes after it loses some of its oomph. You are just stating that something is existing and it’s not as effective as just stating the opinion. Make the subject of your idea the subject of the sentence.

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  17. calamariii says:

    In weak slogans, putting a goal, especially when it is worded weakly is a way of making your organization look not as good as it could be. A company slogan is something of a thesis statement about what the organization is capable of. When writing an argument of any kind, you will not reach every reader who will come across your argument. The target audience of your argument is the small percentage in the middle who have not made a decision yet, not the people who have already agreed and disagreed. The weakest verb is (to) be, a general term for saying that a category of the following does exist. The filler words that are often at the beginning of a sentence are made when one does not know what the sentence is going to be before they write it. When editing and revising, removing the filler and restatements while improving the existing wording is often effectively done by going sentence to sentence. Descriptive and strong verbs also help to keep the reader attentive and continuously interested

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  18. toastedflatbread22 says:

    Riddle
    -We discussed a graves of a Protestant man and a Catholic woman which are divided by a wall
    -The graves are connected over the wall by two stone hands holding eachother
    -This is a beautiful symbol of the strength of their love
    Warm Up
    -The National Science Teachers Association slogan is incredibly weak and dissappointing-“Working to Help Improve Science Teaching Efforts since 2008”
    -It proves basically nothing, especially with the words “working”, “help”, “improve”, and “efforts”
    -The message needs to be sent, for example “Our Students Learn More, and We Can Prove It”
    -This applies to our papers because we do not want to make weak statements, we want to confidently say what we mean
    -The goal is to compel the middle percentage of people who you might be able to pursuade
    -When people read the paper, a big percentage (about 40%) of them already agree with your claim and another big percentage of them (40%) are too opinionated to read (you don’t need these people)
    -You want to convince the very small percentage of people (about 20%) who are persuadable-they are your target audience
    -They need to know exactly what you are trying to prove
    Writing Skills
    -In order to persuade people of your idea, you must use strong words-don’t waste your breath on bullshit
    -For example “There are parents whose behavior has an unfortunate impact on their children” goes to”Bad parents kill their kids”
    -The subject of your sentence must be the subject of your paper and the object of the sentence must be the object of the paper-do not waste these on unnecessary words
    -Don’t start with “there is” or “there are”; it is weak and vague
    -There is no way to build ambiguity into your statements, but there are ways to build choice and possibility into your statements; “Bad parents kill their kids with too much freedom or too little”
    -Use the strongest subject and most robust verb
    -Aspects of the writing to look for and change:
    Eliminate repetitious material
    Eliminate trash language:
    There is / There are / (etc.)
    It is / They are / (etc.)
    because of the fact that / due to the fact that
    The problem with this situation is . . . .
    Fix flawed “By verbing . . .” sentences
    Eliminate needless “types of,” “kinds of,” “sort of” language
    Repair pronouns that have unclear antecedents

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  19. frogs02 says:

    In today’s class, we talked about purging toxic elements. Common phrases can kill good prose. Below is an opening paragraph that displays some toxic elements that a good revision will eliminate. “Is” is the weakest verb. The best a writer can hope to accomplish with such an opening is to tell readers that something exists. We need to eliminate repetitive material, trash language: there is / There are / (etc.), It is / They are / (etc.), because of the fact that/due to the fact that, The problem with this situation is, Fix flawed “By verbing . . .” sentences, Eliminate needless “types of,” “kinds of,” “sort of” language, and Repair pronouns that have unclear antecedents. Provide evidence for those that already agree with you

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  20. chickendinner says:

    Slogans should provide a concise declaration of unequivocal success.
    Phrases such as “it is” and “there are” only take up space and distract from the argument.

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  21. kilotoon says:

    Class Today:
    1) Discussed NSTA slogan
    – how to better develop it
    2) Focus on the people that can be persuaded when developing a thesis
    – Keep distance from people who won’t be persuaded
    3) Revised paragraph (Both in class and our own writing) to
    a) take out junk
    b) remove repetitive language
    c) No language that includes- there is, there are, etc

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